Paul McCann: Still Wrapping My Head Around PK for Shea

Wade Belak.
R.I.P Big Fella

You guys clearly won the trade. Congrts. PK should be an awesome fit for the preds & will definitely help with the transition game.

Very well thought out and written blog considering the circumstances. I do agree, that while it was fun to live in the moment of the trade, it isnt as bad as the initial reaction. Both players are going to be in better positions for their game, but Subban is absolutely the better player at this point and in the future.

Very excited for the Preds

Great trade for you guys, congrats!

I find it interesting that everyone keeps saying Shea should do better against a less physical Eastern conference. Did the physicality of the Sharks pay off against the less physical Eastern conference? No, the Penguins dominated much of the play. However, the Shark's physicality did pay off against other Western conference teams that were also trying to play physical.

What I am trying to say is that I think a big physical defenseman is much more effective against other physical teams. That same defenseman might find himself totally lost against a team that values playing with speed. Yet, the popular opinion now seems to be Shea will dominate a less physical Eastern conference because of his physicality. I don't think that will be the case.

I don't think Shea was as bad as a lot of people made him out to be lately... but hes on the decline, and PK is not. The cap increase is small, and there is just NO WAY anyone wanted Shea until he was 40.

I'm about the biggest Shea Weber fan there is outside of Nashville and Kelowna, but this was a bad deal for Montreal. Weber's not the plodding 2nd pair defender that some make him out to be, but he's not 2011 Weber, either.

still cannot believe the return for Hall. Even if everyone believes that Larsson will become a number 1 defenceman he isn't there yet. He can easily end up a 3/4 guy. That alone should have given Edmonton another high end piece.

Stamkos did well to choose to remain where he started. Good on Yzerman for standing pat on the contract and getting it. Toronto fans and media that are freaking out are kind of hilarious, they are mad about something we never had and their only argument is going on that he is a traitor for not coming home. Ummm he stayed loyal to the team he has played with for 7 years. Leave him alone.

I don't think Shea was as bad as a lot of people made him out to be lately... but hes on the decline, and PK is not. The cap increase is small, and there is just NO WAY anyone wanted Shea until he was 40.
- Guile

Weber isn't on a decline. What a ridiculous thing to say. He is only 30 and plays like a number one guy at every level.

Also his contract is not bad. He gets paid $12M until he is 32, $6M until he is 36, $3M for one year then $1M for the last three years.

If he declines into his late 30s then he becomes the best contract for any cap floor team. $1M cash is a depth defender, if Weber is even a decent 2nd or 3rd pairing at that time his contract is a steal for all teams that do not hit the salary cap. If he retires then his contract is off the books. Even better.

Remember that because of his offer sheet he has absolutely no NTCs. He can be traded or waived at any time. Montreal did very well here.

Congrats on the trade, you clearly won. At this time, the Predators look like the team to beat in the West.

To be honest, I think its a win for both teams. You guys will abbbbsolutely love PK Subban. And yes, hockey wise, you get the better player which is perfectly suited for today's fast game. He's a great person and a fantastic player. He can change the paste of a game. But then, there's the good and the not-so good.... I'm sorry to say PK is not a leader in the room and this has been shown last year when we lost Carey Price. He had the chance to make the Habs HIS team and failed. PK is a "me-myself-and-I person. He wont change because hes in Smashville. PK is a brand in himself... An big biiig ego on two legs. But a h... of a hockey player for sure. You guys are lucky, you're in for a ride... Unfortunately, PK didnt fit with the Habs culture and needs.

We desperately needed leadership and for sure, Weber will bring that. Thats were we win. And for a couple years, he still will be a very good top pair defenseman. He will also help raise the young d-men we have.

Congrats Nashville... But some of us here in Montreal ( not everyone i agree ) believe that this is a very good transaction for Montreal considering the team's needs and situation. But in the long run, yes, you won.

Great trade for you guys, congrats!

I find it interesting that everyone keeps saying Shea should do better against a less physical Eastern conference. Did the physicality of the Sharks pay off against the less physical Eastern conference? No, the Penguins dominated much of the play. However, the Shark's physicality did pay off against other Western conference teams that were also trying to play physical.

What I am trying to say is that I think a big physical defenseman is much more effective against other physical teams. That same defenseman might find himself totally lost against a team that values playing with speed. Yet, the popular opinion now seems to be Shea will dominate a less physical Eastern conference because of his physicality. I don't think that will be the case.
- jrmjames67

The travel was brutal for the sharks. Played us for 7 games then St. Louis and then an east coast team. The Penguins stayed in their own time zone except for the sharks. Sharks faced at least 2 teams that are considered physical.

Weber isn't on a decline. What a ridiculous thing to say. He is only 30 and plays like a number one guy at every level.

Also his contract is not bad. He gets paid $12M until he is 32, $6M until he is 36, $3M for one year then $1M for the last three years.

If he declines into his late 30s then he becomes the best contract for any cap floor team. $1M cash is a depth defender, if Weber is even a decent 2nd or 3rd pairing at that time his contract is a steal for all teams that do not hit the salary cap. If he retires then his contract is off the books. Even better.

Remember that because of his offer sheet he has absolutely no NTCs. He can be traded or waived at any time. Montreal did very well here.
- Steven_Dean

Why does what he gets paid matter? Its the (frank)ing cap hit that matters bud. 7mil+ till 40, and he IS ON THE DECLINE.

Great trade for you guys, congrats!

I find it interesting that everyone keeps saying Shea should do better against a less physical Eastern conference. Did the physicality of the Sharks pay off against the less physical Eastern conference? No, the Penguins dominated much of the play. However, the Shark's physicality did pay off against other Western conference teams that were also trying to play physical.

What I am trying to say is that I think a big physical defenseman is much more effective against other physical teams. That same defenseman might find himself totally lost against a team that values playing with speed. Yet, the popular opinion now seems to be Shea will dominate a less physical Eastern conference because of his physicality. I don't think that will be the case.
- jrmjames67

The west has been dominant for much of the last decade. And the defensive physical style is a big reason why . Pittsburghs cup this past season doesn't somehow negate that trend that's already happened

I'm sure Weber means a lot to Nashville fans and I'm not here to denigrate him. Still, Nashville won this trade. I am a bit curious about the comment regarding Montreal media--the fans have certainly been upset and more critical of Weber than he deserves but the media (especially the francophone media) has been, with rare exception, going out of its way to tell everyone how much better the Habs are now than with Subban (and, for some of them, doing so with serious difficulty at repressing their joy that Subban is gone). Unless, of course, that's what you were complaining about.

If we are going to look at what types of teams have been successful over the last decade, are you suggesting that Chicago's 3 cups in the last 7 years are attributed to a trend of physical teams being dominant?

This was clearly a good trade for "both" teams.
While comments were made that the Preds are the best team in the West now i disagree. Predator's still have needs on offence as well and Pekka Rinne isn't getting any younger either.

This was clearly a good trade for "both" teams.
While comments were made that the Preds are the best team in the West now i disagree. Predator's still have needs on offence as well and Pekka Rinne isn't getting any younger either.
- wrister

I agree. A lot of people are saying the Preds just won the Stanley Cup. That's so far from reality. Preds still lack a presence in front of the net. Subban is great. Weber is great. Subban has more speed, three years younger, and will contribute greatly. But, I'm afraid our PP, which is not good to begin with, got worse with this trade. Not to mention we're paying PK 9 mil/year also. So, not a steal IMO. Both will do well but, this doesn't put Nashville over the top.

If we are going to look at what types of teams have been successful over the last decade, are you suggesting that Chicago's 3 cups in the last 7 years are attributed to a trend of physical teams being dominant?
- jrmjames67

You made the facile comparison involving only the cup winner. Not me.
The west has been a far stronger conference overall. It's hardly even close actually.
The oilers had like like less than a .300 winning percentage against west.
They were better than .500 against the east.
Not a coincidence.


Before the rebuild, the Bruins actually played a very western style. And incidentally were probably the best team in the east for a 3-4 year stretch.

One can't completely make generalizations like u originally attempted to. But the trend has been the east has had maybe 1 or 2 real contenders max. While the west has had about 4-5 every year


On the weber tip, he's also moving from the leagues best division to its worst

You made the facile comparison involving only the cup winner. Not me.
The west has been a far stronger conference overall. It's hardly even close actually.
The oilers had like like less than a .300 winning percentage against west.
They were better than .500 against the east.
Not a coincidence.


Before the rebuild, the Bruins actually played a very western style. And incidentally were probably the best team in the east for a 3-4 year stretch.

One can't completely make generalizations like u originally attempted to. But the trend has been the east has had maybe 1 or 2 real contenders max. While the west has had about 4-5 every year


On the weber tip, he's also moving from the leagues best division to its worst
- Ihateallofu

Interesting comment on making generalizations. You are implying that the entire Western conference plays a more physical style of hockey which is why they are more dominant. Yet the Western conference has been dominated by a team (Chicago) that does not play a physical style of hockey. Don't mistake the Western conference's dominance to mean that a physical defensive style of hockey is dominant.

Are you suggesting that the Oilers have a better record against the east because of their "physical style"?

Forsberg for Erat/Latta
James for Hornqvist/Spaling
Johanson for Jones
Subban for Weber

All players drafted by the Preds and traded for upgrades or "good hockey trade"
I'd say it's impressive that he can make these trades and continue to keep draft picks*

*Gaustad for a 1st rounder wasn't his best trade.

Interesting comment on making generalizations. You are implying that the entire Western conference plays a more physical style of hockey which is why they are more dominant. Yet the Western conference has been dominated by a team (Chicago) that does not play a physical style of hockey. Don't mistake the Western conference's dominance to mean that a physical defensive style of hockey is dominant.

Are you suggesting that the Oilers have a better record against the east because of their "physical style"?
- jrmjames67

Chicago is absolutely built around a defensive style with toews, hjslmarsson, seabrook, hossa Keith. I think the only person making a mistake by pigeonholing the Hawks here because they are also extremely talented, is you

The oilers narrative about being small and not physical is actually kinda dead. But they're certainly not the ducks or the Kings. But that was never really my contention anyway. The oilers have a winning record against the east, cause overall it's a far weaker conference. And don't play that brutally physical defensive brand. Which is ideal and easier to eke out wins for the oilers

End of the day, you made this strange comparison of San Jose and Pittsburgh and somehow drew a tangent to weber.
If weber doesn't dominate, it's because he's losing s step. But it certainly won't have anything to do with coping in a less physical division

Chicago is absolutely built around a defensive style with toews, hjslmarsson, seabrook, hossa Keith. I think the only person making a mistake by pigeonholing the Hawks here because they are also extremely talented, is you

The oilers narrative about being small and not physical is actually kinda dead. But they're certainly not the ducks or the Kings. But that was never really my contention anyway. The oilers have a winning record against the east, cause overall it's a far weaker conference. And don't play that brutally physical defensive brand. Which is ideal and easier to eke out wins for the oilers

End of the day, you made this strange comparison of San Jose and Pittsburgh and somehow drew a tangent to weber.
If weber doesn't dominate, it's because he's losing s step. But it certainly won't have anything to do with coping in a less physical division
- Ihateallofu

Your argument is quite the moving target so it is difficult to keep this going. My argument is against this:

"I believe the Habs will get a very motivated Shea who could dominate against a much less physical Eastern Conference"

Physical defensemen stand out when playing against other physical teams, but can struggle against teams that value speed and puck control over physicality. Could he do better in Montreal because they are in a weaker division? Absolutely. However, I think that recently top teams show that the bigger, physical team isn't necessarily the better team, so why suggest that he will do better in the east because it is less physical?

I agree that the West has been dominant, but the West has been dominated by a team that is not a very physical team in Chicago. I absolutely agree that Chicago has great defensive players, but that does not mean they are a physical team. Looking at the last 15 years, there are only 4 winners that stand out as physical teams (Ducks, Kings x2, and Bruins).

Somehow you turned this into a west is greater than east thing, which is fine. Based on the last decade, I agree. But that has nothing to do with my point.

Chicago is absolutely built around a defensive style with toews, hjslmarsson, seabrook, hossa Keith. I think the only person making a mistake by pigeonholing the Hawks here because they are also extremely talented, is you

The oilers narrative about being small and not physical is actually kinda dead. But they're certainly not the ducks or the Kings. But that was never really my contention anyway. The oilers have a winning record against the east, cause overall it's a far weaker conference. And don't play that brutally physical defensive brand. Which is ideal and easier to eke out wins for the oilers

End of the day, you made this strange comparison of San Jose and Pittsburgh and somehow drew a tangent to weber.
If weber doesn't dominate, it's because he's losing s step. But it certainly won't have anything to do with coping in a less physical division
- Ihateallofu

Hawks, Bruins, Kings are an example of three teams that had everything going for them in O..D...and good goaltending. May not have had physical d-men but did have physical forwards. Montreal got a good pick-up in Weber but got screwed on the Shaw trade. Too much money for a guy whom was made good by hawks forwards.

Why does what he gets paid matter? Its the (frank)ing cap hit that matters bud. 7mil+ till 40, and he IS ON THE DECLINE.
- Guile

Whatever you say, I already mentioned why the contract is a plus as long as Weber doesn't fizzle into a 3rd pairing defenseman in the first half of his contract. And sure you go ahead and believe the advanced stats on Weber. The same stats that can argue Ovechkin is on the decline based on his production now compared to what he did in his early 20s.

So yes, what he gets paid does matter as it affects his value to other teams SHOULD Montreal decided they are ready to move on from Weber.

Check. And. Mate...... Sweetie.